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Energy Futures Lab
United Kingdom
Приєднався 19 лис 2014
Global energy institute @imperialcollege
🌍Advancing sustainable energy solutions
🧠 Promoting innovation
🎓 Educating future leaders
#energyfutureslab
🌍Advancing sustainable energy solutions
🧠 Promoting innovation
🎓 Educating future leaders
#energyfutureslab
Toward optimal designs of domestic air-to-water heat pumps
Electric air-to-water heat pumps are key in the global shift towards decarbonising heat. A plethora of design options for this technology exist, with performance and cost characteristics that are correlated. This gives rise to a critical question: Should manufacturers prioritise higher-performance, higher-cost heat pumps to potentially reduce wider energy infrastructure costs but increase upfront expenses for end-users? Or should they focus on more affordable, yet lower-performance alternatives? In this webinar, we will explore how we tackled this research question within the Integrated Development of Low-carbon Energy Systems (IDLES) project. Specifically, we will discuss the results of our recently launched article titled "Toward optimal designs of domestic air-to-water heat pumps for a net-zero carbon energy system in the UK" published in the open-access journal, Cell Reports Sustainability. Our discussion aims to provide a comprehensive understanding of the implications of different heat pump designs on national decarbonisation pathways.
Biography:
Professor Christos N. Markides is Professor of Clean Energy Technologies and Head of the Clean Energy Process (CEP) Laboratory in the Department of Chemical Engineering at Imperial College London. He also leads the Department’s Energy Research Theme, and the cross-faculty Energy Infrastructure Network. His current research interests focus primarily on the application of fundamental principles of thermodynamics, fluid mechanics, and heat and mass transfer to innovative renewable energy technologies, high-performance components, devices and systems for energy (heat, power, cooling) recovery, conversion, integration and storage, with an emphasis on the efficient and cost-effective utilisation of low-temperature (solar or waste) heat.
Dr. Andreas V. Olympios is a postdoctoral research fellow at the PHAETHON Research and Innovation Centre of Excellence at the University of Cyprus. He holds a PhD degree obtained from the Clean Energy Processes (CEP) Laboratory, Imperial College London. His current research interests encompass the design and operational optimisation of heating and cooling technologies, building thermal systems, energy system modelling, combined heat and power, and large-scale energy storage.
Biography:
Professor Christos N. Markides is Professor of Clean Energy Technologies and Head of the Clean Energy Process (CEP) Laboratory in the Department of Chemical Engineering at Imperial College London. He also leads the Department’s Energy Research Theme, and the cross-faculty Energy Infrastructure Network. His current research interests focus primarily on the application of fundamental principles of thermodynamics, fluid mechanics, and heat and mass transfer to innovative renewable energy technologies, high-performance components, devices and systems for energy (heat, power, cooling) recovery, conversion, integration and storage, with an emphasis on the efficient and cost-effective utilisation of low-temperature (solar or waste) heat.
Dr. Andreas V. Olympios is a postdoctoral research fellow at the PHAETHON Research and Innovation Centre of Excellence at the University of Cyprus. He holds a PhD degree obtained from the Clean Energy Processes (CEP) Laboratory, Imperial College London. His current research interests encompass the design and operational optimisation of heating and cooling technologies, building thermal systems, energy system modelling, combined heat and power, and large-scale energy storage.
Переглядів: 154
Відео
Women in Energy - Rebecca Rosling
Переглядів 1045 місяців тому
Energy Futures Lab invites you to join us for this latest installment in a series aimed at putting the spotlight on Women in Energy. Head of Future Energy Systems Research and Development at EDF Energy, Rebecca Rosling will be joined by event chair Maria Yliruka (visiting researcher at Imperial) to discuss her successful and varied career at EDF over the past 20 years as well as her experience ...
Process Safety & Intensification Research for the Energy Transition
Переглядів 945 місяців тому
There is no shortage of promising technologies, which may eventually contribute to decarbonising the manufacturing industries, transport, and our homes. As the need for action becomes more urgent, there is a concern that the risks associated with deployment of some of these technologies, on a huge scale, may not have been adequately thought through. In the first part of this seminar, a case-stu...
Delivering our Future Power System
Переглядів 3135 місяців тому
This Briefing Paper provides an in-depth, rigorous and comprehensive assessment of the UK’s progress towards meeting its goal of decarbonising the power system by 2035. The UK remains one the few countries with emissions targets in line with the long-term temperature goal of the Paris Agreement. A core part of its emissions reduction roadmap is the decarbonisation of the electricity power syste...
Hydrogen-resistant metals to reshape the energy landscape
Переглядів 2115 місяців тому
Hydrogen has the potential to become a game-changer in the current energy landscape, helping to reach UK’s 2050 net-zero target. Unfortunately, safety is one of the main barriers preventing a wider uptake of hydrogen as an energy carrier: hydrogen exposure significantly degrades the mechanical properties of structural metals, triggering the catastrophic failure of big components. Therefore, as ...
Power System Decarbonisation Pathways in China
Переглядів 866 місяців тому
High proportion of renewable energy integration will ever change the shape of future power systems and redefine the power system stability, control, operation and planning. This talk will first introduce the major challenges and key technological solutions in the power system transition towards carbon neutrality. Then, based on the GOPT Source-Grid-Load-Storage Cooperative Planning platform, th...
Intelligent Thermoelectric Converters with Dynamic Workload Management
Переглядів 586 місяців тому
Mobile devices are now an all-pervasive technology. A typical cell phone gives off around 0.2 Watts of heat when idle, and closer to a Watt while making a call or running processor-intensive applications. The heat generated by a tablet or laptop is much higher. Almost all of this heat is never recovered. In this paper, we will present the concept of a novel capacitive thermoelectric converter (...
Women in Energy - Bindi Patel, Vattenfall
Переглядів 1056 місяців тому
Head of Customer Experience and Communications at Vattenfall, Bindi Patel, is joined by event chair and Visiting Researcher at Imperial, Maria Yliruka, to discuss her successful career in the energy industry and share advice for other women in the sector. Bindi Patel is Head of Customer Experience and Communications at Vattenfall Heat UK. With over 14 years working in the energy industry, Bindi...
Solar Fuels for Combating Climate Change
Переглядів 1156 місяців тому
As we strive to reach the net-zero target by 2050, it is clear that the production and use of sustainable fuels is essential. By using solar energy - a renewable source with immense energy output -, we can produce so-called solar fuels. A promising pathway towards the production of such fuels, which is both green and safe, is photocatalysis. In this process, some materials can convert molecules...
Challenges developing supports for iridium oxide water oxidation catalysts
Переглядів 2516 місяців тому
The transition to a zero-carbon society has highlighted hydrogen as a potential energy carrier, with proton exchange membrane (PEM) water electrolysis being the most promising technology for green hydrogen production. However, the scarcity of iridium is a bottleneck for the large-scale implementation of PEM electrolysers, where high loadings of iridium oxide is currently used to catalyse water ...
Micromechanics of Nuclear Structural Materials in Light Water Reactors
Переглядів 666 місяців тому
Zircaloy, a key player of fuel cladding materials for fission power plants, embarked on a fascinating journey through the demanding conditions of high temperatures, intense pressure loads, hydrogen immersion, and irradiation damage during its in-service life. Amidst this intricate dance of environmental challenges, Zircaloy undergoes irreversible deformations manifesting through localised slip ...
Quantitative Electrochemistry - Mass Spectrometry
Переглядів 1727 місяців тому
Renewable energy sources such as solar and wind are intermittent in nature, calling for the development of efficient storage solutions. Electrochemical energy storage is among the most promising technologies to do the job - either by direct storage in batteries, or indirectly through the electrochemical production of chemicals (known as Power-to-X) which can then be used for electricity generat...
Operando Fe Dissolution in Fe-N-C Electrocatalysts during Oxygen Reduction
Переглядів 1497 місяців тому
Atomic Fe in N-doped C (Fe-N-C) provide the most promising non-precious metal O2 reduction activity at the cathode of proton exchange membrane fuel cells, althought they suffer from limited durability. Fe demetallation has been suggested as the primary initial degradation mechanism. However, the fate of Fe under different operating conditions varies. Here, we monitor operando Fe dissolution of ...
Exploitation of UK Industrial Demand to Reduce Cost of Green Hydrogen Produced Offshore Wind Energy
Переглядів 1168 місяців тому
Exploitation of UK Industrial Demand to Reduce Cost of Green Hydrogen Produced Offshore Wind Energy
Wind Farm Optimisation - An overview of some aerodynamic considerations
Переглядів 2018 місяців тому
Wind Farm Optimisation - An overview of some aerodynamic considerations
15 Years of the MSc in Sustainable Energy Futures
Переглядів 6829 місяців тому
15 Years of the MSc in Sustainable Energy Futures
Carbon Nanotube Production from CO2 via High Temperature Electrolysis
Переглядів 8359 місяців тому
Carbon Nanotube Production from CO2 via High Temperature Electrolysis
A techno-economic assessment of the viability of using electrolysis waste heat for district heating
Переглядів 22610 місяців тому
A techno-economic assessment of the viability of using electrolysis waste heat for district heating
Developing contracts-for-difference for accelerating production of sustainable aviation fuels in UK
Переглядів 14510 місяців тому
Developing contracts-for-difference for accelerating production of sustainable aviation fuels in UK
Energy Futures Lab lunchtime seminar - Modelling the Aerodynamics of high loaded wind turbines
Переглядів 15310 місяців тому
Energy Futures Lab lunchtime seminar - Modelling the Aerodynamics of high loaded wind turbines
Energy Futures Lab - Women in Energy: Laura Fleming
Переглядів 17510 місяців тому
Energy Futures Lab - Women in Energy: Laura Fleming
Energy Futures Lab lecture series: Laura Sandys
Переглядів 25011 місяців тому
Energy Futures Lab lecture series: Laura Sandys
IDLES Programme: Matthias Mersch on the impact of rising fuel prices
Переглядів 143Рік тому
IDLES Programme: Matthias Mersch on the impact of rising fuel prices
Energy Futures Lab lecture series - Professor Alexander Cowan
Переглядів 341Рік тому
Energy Futures Lab lecture series - Professor Alexander Cowan
Cyber-resiliency of digitalised power grids
Переглядів 576Рік тому
Cyber-resiliency of digitalised power grids
Estimating the load-balancing potential of households in the UK
Переглядів 328Рік тому
Estimating the load-balancing potential of households in the UK
How to build a career in sustainability
Переглядів 317Рік тому
How to build a career in sustainability
Quantitative characterisation of battery layer structures using ultrasound
Переглядів 646Рік тому
Quantitative characterisation of battery layer structures using ultrasound
Nuclear Energy for the Planet - Dr Claudia Gasparrini
Переглядів 851Рік тому
Nuclear Energy for the Planet - Dr Claudia Gasparrini
Investigating the breakdown of wind turbine wakes
Переглядів 937Рік тому
Investigating the breakdown of wind turbine wakes
I believe its the stadis 450 static additive they are using, it contains barium elements. and I think excess use of this and the barium is reacting with the vapour. I've noticed flights at 30000ft don't leave trails but ones above 33000ft do. I've noticed the warming effect of the spreading trails. knew most of this 15 years ago just not the technical side, thanks ✌✌
Thank god
Please do something similar for SAF
So what investments does this fellow have in renewables? The energy transition we're facing in Australia is critically important, and we must consider all angles carefully. The current push towards wind and solar dominance in our energy mix is proving more challenging than initially anticipated. Firstly, the infrastructure required for large-scale wind and solar farms faces significant hurdles. We're seeing unexpected social resistance in rural communities where these projects are planned. Concerns about land use, visual impacts, and potential effects on local ecosystems exist. These aren't just NIMBY issues - they reflect real concerns about how we're reshaping our landscape. Economically, the costs of this transition are ballooning. The grid upgrades required to handle intermittent power sources are far more extensive and expensive than initially projected. We're also finding that the lifespan of some renewable technologies is shorter than hoped, leading to higher replacement costs. Environmental challenges are emerging, too. The raw materials required for solar panels and batteries have their ecological footprint. We're trading one form of environmental impact for another. If we continue down this path without addressing these issues, we risk creating an energy system that's unreliable and prohibitively expensive. This could have severe long-term consequences for both households and industry. Energy-intensive industries might relocate to countries with more stable and affordable power, leading to job losses and economic decline. If we can't provide reliable, affordable energy over a 100-year timeframe, we risk becoming an economic backwater. Our standard of living would decline significantly as energy costs consume more of household budgets and all industries struggle to hold a competitive edge. We need to reevaluate our approach. We should consider more singular long-term low-emission technology like nuclear power. Even technological advances with coal, of which Australia has reserves for 1,500 years, can be acceptable. The stakes are too high to commit fully to a plan that is already showing significant flaws. Our goal should be an energy transition that maintains or improves our standard of living, supports our industries, and achieves our highest priorities in economic goals. The current path risks failing on all three counts. We need a robust, national discussion without ideological misinformation or personal gain; it's about our energy future and considering all options and their long-term implications. The Australian parliament is elected to improve Australian lives, not to send them back to the bush caves where the only mark of their existence may one day be handprints on a rock wall. Therefore, what guarantees does the current Prime Minister give that the future of Australia will be affordable to every citizen? The theme here is nonsense in the long term. Seems they are preaching to the converted. Lastly, hydrogen in Australia is dead.
I have 4 hydrogen-related holdings, including an Australian electrolyser company. They will do fine by focusing on the use cases that actually make sense, rather than the ones that don't. I would personally do much better if the laws of physics were more favourable to hydrogen, or if I could go along with the hype, but they aren't and I can't. So instead of writing essays on what you would LIKE to be true, why don't you point out any actual errors in my lecture, and I'll happily issue a correction.
@@MLiebreich It is not so much what I'd like to be true as it is about society. Hydrogen in this country is dead. It is cost-inefficient and unstable as an investment. The ideologues live in a fantasy world. Are you an ideologue? Energy is meant to be cheap. Look at China and India! Between them, they are constructing 500 coal power stations. It puts the kibosh on renewables, eh? Practical and easily accessible energy to every citizen is a government responsibility. Energy is not to be manipulated and made into a blackmail tool, as we see today through misguided government funding. The investments in renewables would disappear overnight if taxpayer funding were withdrawn. Your talk is pie-in-the-sky rhetoric and has no practical sense to the average man on an average wage. So, let these bling ideas float on their own, and I would be safe to say they would go the way of the Dodo. Australia has coal reserves for 1000 years, a cheap, efficient energy source along with gas. The environmental fear is driven by a few unbalanced zealots that whip up hysteria for personal gain. No, the world is just fine, contrary to the blathering of lunatics. My advice is to get out while you can and buy a lovely house.
@@MLiebreich What happened? I have responded. Didn't you like it?
Green hydrogen is one of the eventualities of an all green portfolio. Green steel, green aluminum, green ceramics, green ammonia, green heat, et cetera, are among the many others. This idea that all hydrogen can only be green hydrogen, from today, is either a misreading, or poor understanding of modern initiatives.
Hydrogen is not to be used to make grid electricity, in principle. So, the theme of the talk is a bit off from what global governments are seeking. However, some plants that have surplus electricity are making hydrogen to power turbines for peak power uses. These collocation moves are quite sound. Grids are going to go with massless means for generation for the most part.
H2 has the performance of 2 or 3 gallons of gas, in some passenger cars. There are 3.78 liters to a gallon. So, performance parity may, in fact, already be here.
Excellent talk gathering so many of the fundamentals for why H2 is only applicable in 'edge cases'. I wish the lectures were this interesting when I was a student there!
Air to water heat pumps are off the shelf all over the world and are ideally suited to replace a gas boiler with hydronic heating. They can hit any temperature you want. They have been available for 20 years in the US and Asia. Piece of cake.
🎯 Key points for quick navigation: 00:00 *🤵 Einführung in Michael Liebreichs Rolle und Vorbereitung auf die Diskussion über Wasserstoff* - Einführung von Michael Liebreich und Erwähnung seiner früheren Rollen und Beiträge zur Energieeffizienz. - Michael Liebreichs Ankündigung, dass er möglicherweise kritische Ansichten zu Wasserstoff äußern wird. - Erwähnung einer vorherigen Vorlesung und die Erwartung einer Antwort darauf. 02:28 *📘 Diskussion über die Faszination und Herausforderungen von Wasserstoff als Energiequelle* - Diskussion der historischen und zukünftigen Rolle von Wasserstoff in der Energiewirtschaft. - Zitate von Jules Vern und John Omar über die Potenziale von Wasserstoff. - Kritische Betrachtung der realen Fortschritte und der wirtschaftlichen Herausforderungen von Wasserstoffprojekten. 06:04 *🌍 Globale Wasserstoffstrategien und ihre Auswirkungen* - Analyse der weltweiten Einführung von Wasserstoffstrategien und der Bemühungen um eine Dekarbonisierung. - Beispiele für nationale Wasserstoffstrategien und deren Ambitionen. - Diskussion über die Herausforderungen bei der Umsetzung dieser Strategien und die geringe Nutzung von grünem Wasserstoff. 10:32 *🔧 Vergleich von Wasserstoff mit anderen Technologien und die metaphorische Nutzung des Schweizer Taschenmessers* - Vergleich der Vielseitigkeit von Wasserstoff mit einem Schweizer Taschenmesser und die begrenzte praktische Anwendung. - Diskussion über die spezifischen Anwendungen, in denen Wasserstoff vorteilhaft sein könnte. - Kritik an der Überbewertung von Wasserstoff in der öffentlichen und politischen Diskussion. 14:12 *🚌 Anwendungen von Wasserstoff in Transportmitteln und die Probleme bei der Marktdurchdringung* - Analyse des Einsatzes von Wasserstoff in Transportmitteln wie Bussen und Zügen. - Erwähnung spezifischer Projekte und deren Scheitern bzw. geringe Erfolgsrate. - Kritische Bewertung der Zukunftsaussichten von Wasserstoff in diesem Sektor. 17:09 *💸 Wirtschaftliche Unterstützung für Wasserstoffprojekte und die Schwierigkeit der Umsetzung* - Diskussion über die finanzielle Förderung von Wasserstoffprojekten und die mangelnde Realisierung trotz erheblicher Subventionen. - Erwähnung der großen Anzahl an Strategien und Projekten, die nicht zur Ausführung kommen. - Analyse der Gründe für das Scheitern vieler Wasserstoffinitiativen trotz umfangreicher Förderungen. 25:34 *💸 Wirtschaftliche Herausforderungen bei der Produktion von grünem Wasserstoff* - Diskussion über die Senkung der Produktionskosten von grünem Wasserstoff und die Schwierigkeit, bedeutende Kostensenkungen zu erreichen. - Elektrizität macht einen großen Anteil der Kosten aus; Unsicherheit, ob die Kosten um den Faktor 10 sinken können. - Die Bedeutung der Kapitalkosten und der begrenzte Einfluss der Reduktion der Elektrolyseurkosten auf die Gesamtkosten. 27:10 *🚢 Transport von flüssigem Wasserstoff und dessen Wirtschaftlichkeit* - Erörterung der physischen und wirtschaftlichen Herausforderungen beim weltweiten Transport von flüssigem Wasserstoff. - Vergleich von Wasserstoff mit herkömmlichen Kraftstoffen in Bezug auf Gewicht und Volumen. - Skepsis bezüglich der Machbarkeit des Transports großer Mengen flüssigen Wasserstoffs über See. 31:17 *🔄 Effizienz und Wirtschaftlichkeit der Wasserstoffumwandlung und -transport über lange Strecken* - Analyse der Effizienz von Prozessen zur Umwandlung von Wasserstoff in Ammoniak und dessen Rückumwandlung in Energie. - Niedrige End-zu-End-Effizienz bei der Umwandlung von Windenergie in nutzbare Energie in Europa durch Ammoniak. - Diskussion über die Kosten und die praktische Umsetzung von Wasserstoffimporten nach Europa durch Pipelines als einzige wirtschaftliche Methode. 36:07 *🔋 Speicherung von Wasserstoff und dessen Einsatz zur Energiespeicherung* - Betrachtung der Herausforderungen und Möglichkeiten der Wasserstoffspeicherung und dessen Verwendung für die Energiesicherheit. - Diskussion über kleine und große Skalenspeicherlösungen für Wasserstoff. - Die Notwendigkeit, integrierte Systemlösungen zu finden, die alle Aspekte der Wasserstoffspeicherung und -verwendung abdecken. 01:12:43 *🏠 Diskussion über die Elektrifizierung von Heizsystemen und Herausforderungen in der Wärmeversorgung* - Debatte über die Massenadoption von Wärmepumpen und notwendige Gebäudeverbesserungen im Vereinigten Königreich. - Betonung der Notwendigkeit, technologische Störungen zu überwinden, die von etablierten Energielösungen ausgehen. - Darstellung von Wärmepumpen als ökonomisch und physikalisch vorteilhafte Lösung trotz hoher Anfangskosten. 01:16:01 *🌍 Ausführliche Analyse der Potenziale und Herausforderungen von Wärmepumpentechnologien* - Detaillierte Erklärung der Kostenstrukturen und Installationsprozesse für Wärmepumpen in verschiedenen Haustypen. - Diskussion über die Senkung der Hardware- und Installationskosten durch direkten Vertrieb und vereinfachte Systeme. - Hinweise auf politische und steuerliche Hindernisse, die die Verbreitung von Wärmepumpen erschweren, aber bereits überwindbar sind. 01:18:05 *🛠️ Technische Lösungen und Anpassungen für den Einsatz von Hochtemperatur-Wärmepumpen in anspruchsvollen Umgebungen* - Diskussion über die Eignung von Hochtemperatur-Wärmepumpen für historische und schwierig zu isolierende Gebäude. - Beschreibung von Anpassungen an bestehenden Heizsystemen, um den Einsatz von Hochtemperatur-Wärmepumpen zu ermöglichen. - Erörterung der Möglichkeiten zur Nutzung von städtischen Aquiferen für Heiz- und Kühlsysteme in dicht bebauten Gebieten. 01:19:29 *🏗️ Diskussion über die Dekarbonisierung der Stahlindustrie und den Einsatz von Wasserstoff* - Analyse der Möglichkeiten und Grenzen von Wasserstoff in der Stahlproduktion. - Betonung der Kostendynamik und technischen Herausforderungen beim Übergang zu wasserstoffbasierten Prozessen in der Stahlherstellung. - Vorstellung verschiedener Ansätze zur Reduzierung von Emissionen in der Stahlindustrie, einschließlich des Einsatzes von Wasserstoff und alternativen Technologien. 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“In any system of energy, Control is what consumes energy the most. No energy store holds enough energy to extract an amount of energy equal to the total energy it stores. No system of energy can deliver sum useful energy in excess of the total energy put into constructing it. This universal truth applies to all systems. Energy, like time, flows from past to future” (2017).
Thank you for a fabulous presentation.😁👍
That was really not good, like at all. Watch this if you want to hear feel good stories about the good old times when Britain was leading in nuclear and "young people don't know VHS" kind of jokes on repeat. This talk stays very vague about any relevant topic in the field. Tech, costs, financing, building times, waste. Every topic is touched *very* lightly at best. And was there really a room full of British experts on nuclear and no one intervened when he forgot that the Hinkley Point C strike price is coupled to inflation? Because by now the price has already risen by approx 30%. Even relatively expensive offshore wind farms are half of that right now. And in contrary to nuclear power plants it seems reasonable to assume that there will be a learning curve. Plus, it doesn't take 15 years to build, plus it is not the government financing it.
Lol at Olaf Schultz saying "we will create a big boom" with hydrogen. No thanks , we already saw such a German hydrogen big boom with the Hindenburg.
Thank Goodness for Michael Liebreich speaking truth to power about hydrogen.
What is missing is the possibility of huge grids. When someone considers hydrogen from Canada to Europe - it's cheaper to lay a cable for the same amout of power from Canada to Europe (it's not longer than existing HVDC-Links in China) , and the losses are maximum 10%, not 80%. And there is no chance that the situation "no wind" happens in North America and Eurasia/Africa at the same time, and the sun does not settle if the grids are connected over such distances. Technology exists, prices are reasonable, it just needs to be built. But noone talks about it.
Strongly agree... Thanks for posting
Good point. I have no idea why my 🇨🇦 is so conned by this hydrogen scam.
This is stupid. Why not use the hydrogen that nature has so thoughtfully stored on carbon? CH4 is abundent, already has delivery systems, and doesn't pollute.
"And doesn't pollute". Clown.
and by the way you can reduce steel with ammonia and no need to crack back down to hydrogen - use blue ammonia to reduce steel (not green)
Iron electrolysis is also working in large scale labratory tests (tons per day), accelerating this approuch is also helping. Still it needs to be scaled up as by Factor 100.000.
It is confusing to only have one label for Blue and Green Hydrogen - Green is not scalable at a reasonable cost - Blue on the other hand is
I'm an absolute fanboy of Michael since following his podcast. His ability to draw threads together means he has a future in fabrics, should the energy thing not work out! A great choice of panellists, especially Kate's 'vox pop' insights - and that is not meant in any deprecatory way. I absolutely believe that we need to take on the vested interests not just with data, but with stories and narratives, because there is a reason 'social proof' is not far behind the hero section of every website. So many talking points, and my only regret is that YT transcripts are not user-friendly, because I want to pick this session apart!
Brilliant, thankyou
Hydrogen to manufacture ammonia for fertilizer. Eventually in time the main source for agriculture.
What's wrong with using manure like the old days?
The people who fell prey to it are the german green party. And who trained them for many years?` Can you guess?
Ursula von der Leyen is completely incapable to understand anything about hydrogen.
It was interesting
Cobalt is the recent headliner found by ICFO, which encourages our esteemed scientist Dr Yang, and all others, in testing every element on the table. Great job Dr Yang
French German Nuclear Volkswagen Reactors? If we can agree on the Common Market, it's all ready to hand over to the Engineers.
Anyone who thinks Fusion is a viable option is staring at the Sun too long, that is why we have Solar panels, and will never have collision reactions from the kind of technology within the reach of todays techniques.
An excellent presentation and discussion. Very knowledgeable and informative.
Excellent talk. Michael and Paul Martin do such a great job of laying this out for us non-technical people.
If you'd like to hear more from Michael Liebreich, his thoughts on hydrogen and other aspects of the clean energy transition, as well as from leaders across the climate space, please follow Cleaning Up, a podcast hosted by Michael and Baroness Bryony Worthington.
Very interesting, well sum up.
There is some sucking and blowing in this presentation. Paraphrasing here but "the problem with using green hydrogen is it requires a build-out of green power generation". That is the opportunity. We can build green power generation in places with great green economics without worrying about grid demand (e.g. Newfoundland Canada). This significantly improves the ROI on that green power, better utilization, cheaper land, etc. You cannot export grid power from Australia to Japan but you can export green fuel. I agree, hydrogen is ridiculous but that is a straw man argument. No serious person with any actual experience with ammonia and hydrogen would ever suggest using hydrogen. Hydrogen requires ridiculous pressure or ridiculous temperatures. Ammonia is a different story. Ammonia is an energy-dense liquid. This means it is cheap to ship a lot of energy. (Notice he showed an 'efficiency' breakdown not a cost breakdown of shipping ammonia. The input is 100%-green free-wind, the costs matter, not the power loss.) We can build and build and build green energy production, that is not the bottleneck. We can build turbines, a port, hydrogen, and an ammonia plant in 5 years. Expanding an electric grid in a tiny fraction will take 10 years. Building green ammonia is the FASTEST route to reducing GHG. I have asked 5 different green ammonia developers "If I gave you a contract for green ammonia could you build me supply?" Every single one said - "Absolutely, with a contract, there are zero barriers, how much do you want?" His conclusion - use heat pumps, and EVs, lacks any math. What is the GHG impact of this? We use 100m barrels of oil daily, and roughly 20m barrels of that oil is consumed as diesel. WE NEED FUEL. Shipping, trucking, trains, mining equipment. Home heating is worth doing but it will not avert climate change. Natural gas is largely a byproduct of oil production. It is fantastically cheap. Using this as your point of comparison is a great way to make your argument sound solid. If you compare the price per unit of energy of green ammonia to the price of diesel you get an entirely different picture, they are within spitting distance of each other. Remember, the oil industry is constantly re-investing. Exploring, fracking, drilling, etc. The question is - what is the energy produced per unit of investment? The match on green ammonia looks good.
I think you have missed the point. When you use something with 20% end-to-end efficiency as an energy transport medium, you are going to have a resulting power price 5x higher than at the source. And that's excluding capital cost and maintenance; add those in and you're talking 7-10x. Now Haber Bosch plants need to operate 24/7 because they are high-pressure, high-temperature affairs. So you can't run them on solar power alone, you need to hybridize supply, add batteries, etc. So you are talking about all-in power cost of *at least* $30, probably $40/MWh, even if you have great wind and solar. So your ammonia-fired power at the destination is $210-$400/MWh. Try getting a PPA at that price, let alone running an economy. Which is exactly why these projects are not getting done. Summary: that sound may be the sound of sucking and blowing, but it's not coming from me!
@@MLiebreich on a levelized cost basis green power is cheap. I would start with the premise that we should exploit any opportunity to use green power to do anything we can as long as the final consumer cost makes sense. Invest all we can as fast as we can, build build build. The numbers I am seeing make sense for ammonia when compared to diesel. Using the Energy Power Research Institute numbers, they say green ammonia can be produced at around $750/tonne today. If you look at the cost for the equivalent of ammonia to a liter of diesel that is $1.41 or a gallon at $5.53. This research appears to assume grid-connected green sources, my understanding is green power is a fair bit cheaper if it is not connected to the grid. I have seen figures around $500 from Bloomberg NEF (isn't that your outfit?) Regardless, 100% green fuel for the price per unit of energy of diesel is a winning proposition. www.epri.com/research/products/000000003002028977 Don't believe the numbers from EPRI? How about S&P Platts? They say contracts in the market right now range from $600-$800 /tonne I hear your point about carrot farming. With the new US IRA tax credits the ERPI estimates green ammonia will drop down to ~$250 - that is potentially trillions in giveaways! If I had a fleet and could source green fuel for less than half the diesel price, I would buy all I could. I'm a little surprised we haven't seen an announcement from Amazon yet about turning their trucking fleet green. The great thing about green ammonia is it can be made in places with cheap land and excellent wind or solar. This project will be 4GW! The land is cheap and the wind capacity factor is about 50% (off-shore numbers at an on-shore location.) The entire green capacity for Canada is 22 GW, there is literally no place where you could shove an extra 4GW into a grid but if you are making fuel it is no problem. ammoniaenergy.org/webinars/project-nujioqonik-harnessing-wind-power-for-ammonia-on-canadas-atlantic-coast/ Quick comment on peaker power. Peaker power costs are mostly fuel, ~85%. In Ontario, we bill peak power at 10x cheap overnight. So if you made ammonia cheap, had massive losses, only retained 10% of the energy, and then used this as fuel for peak power you are not far off today's prices. (Yes I understand the constraints of HB process, several green hydrogen sites today buffer hydrogen, there are also HB designs that can throttle..) I am all for heat pumps but we need to address petroleum head-on. 46% of North America's GHG emissions are petroleum. Transport is a far larger GHG emitter than industry or operating buildings. Ammonia for ships, trains, and trucks, will be critical. We have a fantastic alternative fuel at our fingertips. Go ahead, dunk on hydrogen, it never made sense, and will never make sense. But ammonia, with its energy density, is a fundamentally different story.
Thank you Professor Narayan, and may you Rest in Peace.
Now look, one does not just watch a great video without adding a meaningful comment. Ooopsie...
Could not manage to watch after about 30 mins.... the presenter was basically mocking the whole concept and anyone supporting Hydrogen - in those 30 mins atleast he has not presented any solid technical reason of why it is unsustainable other than costs. If you move back about 120 years one could talk exactly the same things about Internal Combustion engines and Petrol / Diesel too. I expected a more erudite presentation from someone of his fame
Thanks for the heads up. Saved me an hour I will never get back.
You need to understand the difference between mocking and explaining basic thermodynamics and micro-economics. There is a reason why 150 years into the hydrogen economy just 0.1% of hydrogen is produced by electrolysis and 0% of it is consumed in either heating or transport. I understand the consequences are uncomfortable, but I can't change them and neither can you.
This is plain physics and common sense, what can people argue except protecting their investments/intesrests. Thank you very much for sharing.
My own calculations for energy density of oil tanker vs tube trailer came up with 7x requirement, not 15x. Where did i go wrong?
Diesel is about 36 MJ/L, 5000 psi hydrogen is ~1.8 MJ/L, which is 20x. Gasoline is 32 MJ/L, 18x. BUT then you need to consider those 5000 psi tubes are super heavy so for the truck to move the same weight there would be a lower volume of hydrogen.
I see why. I used 700bar (10000psi).
(Both accounts are me!)
@@GreenEnergyGuyd Maybe 10,000 psi is the right number to use! I'm not sure. I believe hydrogen buses run at 5,000 and the Toyotas run at 10,000. (And the Titan sub that crushed the rich guys was at 5,800 psi so maybe any way you cut it trucking hydrogen around is not a great plan.)
@Greenammonianews i think the cheaper option is 5000psi, but I was using a study that quoted 10000psi as a benchmark. As Micheal pointed out though, where do you draw the line at cost vs pressure for the sake of energy density still being poor. Even at 7x, I figured it was awful. So 15x just puts the nail in the coffin of road transportation of h2.
38:36 One 30t tube trailer carries 300 kg of Nitrogen.
Nitrogen?
@@ChrisBaileyMusic Of course H2. The density of 600 bar H2 is about 0,046 kg per liter. Even the density of liquid H2 is 0.072. You need 22 kg of steel to lock in 1 kg H2
@@wilfriedschuler3796 you say of course...but he clearly wrote nitrogen. I'm just checking.
@@GreenEnergyGuyd of course he said nitrogen. Ask him it is a mistake. It does not make sense to carry compressed nitrogen around.It is easy to liquify.
Toyota also sponsored H2-FCEV-Policecars in Germany and of course media reported this. No clue what the police is doing with them.
When I was a young engineer old guys told me about the transparent flames that were glowing at the flanges of a hydrogen pipe and the explosion when hydrogen diffused through the plastic of a cable into a cellar. Sooner or later there will be a severe explosion and every politician will be surprised.
If you use just hydrogen for plastics, you get water. 😂
A lord mayor as an expert on Hydrogen😂. The world is hyped up with people having an opinion about Hydrogen without the academic background to understand it. Especially politicians have in general no clue whatsoever and just are parroting what the industry tells them. One of the reason is that they don't have a solution for decarbonisation. I once asked in a German forum, what their future carbon source would be, to create plastics, chemicals etc. and no one had a solution. But we do hydrogen...
Good to see fantastic lecture. Can i have presentation/slide available ? please share.
This is a "must watch" video for everybody involved in cleantech and the energy transition. Michael, thanks for again explaining things in such clear and no BS way!
Totally agree, superb listening.
Didn't mention how (leaking) hydrogen indirectly has a greenhouse gas warming potential, by slowing the breakdown of methane into Carbon dioxide in the atmosphere. (Unless I missed it?). Don't get the feeling these people comprehend the urgency and scale of the dire predicament we're in.
Excellent lecture though.
I only had 40 minutes, apologies. I took the climate imperative and hydrogen's Global Warmin Potential as read. Also, hydrogen's GWP needs to be kept in perspective. If the wet dream of the hydrogen pushers were to come true (and it won't, because physics), there would be 600 million tons of clean hydrogen by 2050. Suppose 10% were to leak, that's 60m tons. At a 20-year GWP of 33, that's equivalent to two GT of CO2 - 5% of current CO2 emissions or 3.5% of all current anthropogenic GHG emissions. Using 100-year GWP you get a figure 3x lower. However, since some of that 600m tonnes displaces methane, which has much higher GWPs, it would almost certainly be a net benefit to the climate. Remember hydrogen has 3x the energy content per ton and only 40% of the GWP. The real issue is that other solutions would be much cheaper than hydrogen and would reduce emissions by more, as well as being safer and more convenient.
Thanks for the detailed answer!
Interesting to have an estimate for the upper limit on GWP for mass hydrogen adoption.
Thanks! Based on this valuable information I could make an informed decision and invest my money in Tesla (instead of my state subsidized program before) and therefore help directly creating the cleaner and more efficient future we all want. Hope the FUDsters don‘t come for you.
Tesla laid out this plan in its master plan 3 march 2023. They even mentioned the circular economy nature of materials extraction and recycling allowing for a potential future where don't need to extract more battery minerals as there will be enough in circulation to meet demand....a distant dream perhaps....but the vision is already there.
But doing everything with batteries wont work either right? Simon Michaux's report and the recent work by Ed Conway for example show we have orders of magnitude to few resources like copper to completely replace our existing system. We have no choice but to degrow.
No one except Michaux is suggesting doing everything with batteries. In my lecture I talk about doing long-duration storage with hydrogen or a derivative, which is one of the use cases high up on the ##HydrogenLadder. Michaux assumes every wind and solar plant has to be paired with four weeks of battery storage and ends up with a grid-connected storage figure between 90 and 450 times higher than any serious energy modeler, and then assumes it all has to be me by batteries of 2022 design. It's silly stuff, frankly. There are many ways of dealing with variability of supply and demand, of which batteries are only one. See Superhero 2, system solutions. ua-cam.com/video/ZkwN-hLV42I/v-deo.htmlsi=Yiw0nA4thNCDfdYV Conway points out the scale of materials we use but does not say challenges can't be met. Here's my conversation with him: www.cleaningup.live/material-world-ep149-ed-conway/
Green fuel is another choice. Green ammonia is price-competitive on an energy-unit level with diesel. Trucks, ships, mining, etc. can move to green ammonia as fuel.
Green ammonia is not competitive with diesel, dream on. It's also toxic and dangerous. Might it find a role as a fuel? Perhaps. Does it help for promoters to pretend it's competitive today? No.
@@Greenammonianews DME or DEE would be a better alternative to NH3, as there's plenty of bio-input scope in these.
@@aryaman05 possibly... there is bio-input. I will look into it and edit this if I learn anything more. I expect DME or DEE will cost more at the end of the day. I don't know what's the cheapest bio-mass so I am just grabbing a figure on softwood pulp - that will cost ~500/t. The cost of nitrogen is maybe ~10/t. Also, site selection becomes a challenge. The outback of Australia has cheap land and great solar but it is a long way from bio-mass. In the economics of pulp and paper, they balance out the cost of inputs, cost of transporting inputs, cost of power, cost of shipping finished goods, etc. Cost to transport bio-mass is a huge driver. With ammonia you just grab nitrogen out of the air.
Think i need to link to this video every time someone starts talking about hydrogen cars on every EV review video I've ever watched.
I am trying to do this. It just too much work. And you get squashed by the guardians of what the oligarchy’s greed and miss-information.
The power of the gas lobby is enormous. They can pay to repeat the wrong message until all politicians' heads are turned, to subsidise the wrong stuff. Politicians must get better informed, and more politicians should be more than just masters of rhetoric. Journalism is also to be blamed.